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Die4oil posted.....
Less focus on that line capitalist mode of production. The fact is that most amerikkkans do not produce anything but simply are paid to move a finished product along untill it sells. Look up the labor statistics. Amerikkka is a service sector economy. So, while you may think that your 5.15/hr is a shitty wage, especially for working in a mall, keep in mind that the only reason that you can make 5.15 as a member of the labor aristocracy and the capitalists can still make a profit is because of the contradictions that are apparent in the production of all the shit you're selling/transporting/giving the finishing touches before it is sold. That is, the only reason that you can make a decent wage and someone can still turrn a profit is because the during the actual production of the good, depressed wages were paid. This is the Principal contradiction. So if you can find a way to prove that Amerikkka workers are a majority of producers AND surplus value is extracted from them, then they are proletarian. If not, then they are the labor aristocracy, workers bought off by the profits from imperialism.
Joe comment.........
That being said, I am aware of the more theoretical implications of the problem. But again, you are wrong - capitalists are not in the business of paying higher wages just for the fun of it. If we divide the history of the 20th century into three epochs, we see that in the first - pre WWI, when Lenin wrote Imperialism, and in the second, the post-war/Cold War, the "bribing of the workers" through the profits of imperialism was in full force - I would not disagree with it. But the third epoch, the one we are still in today, has seen the ability of the capitalist class to maintain this scheme weaken severely. The development of the productive forces - technological innovations - during the second epoch necessitated a mass expulsion of workers from the productive process, and reduced thousands of skilled jobs to unskilled labor. This necessarily resulted in a decline in the rate of profit, which in turn necessitated an prolonged offensive on the part of the ruling class to claw back, bit by bit, all which it had granted in the earlier epoch. This offensive continues today and has reached a fevered pitch.
The basic statistics available to anyone who isn't brainwashed by Maoism are available - real wages for American workers have been declining for 30 years, with only a temporary increase during the technology boom of the late 90s. After the recession of 2000-present, the downward trajectory of real wages resumed its pace. I am sure the same process has been taking place in all advanced countries.
Die4oil recomments.....
"No, I don't foresee picking fruit for 4 dollars an hour anytime soon. What the hell is your point? 40 million Americans have no healthcare."
So what, nearly all of this people that lack health care (by which the state has created (yet, not free) public access to health care in most areas in amerikkka.) have access to clean water. On the other hand, 1.1 billion people throughout the world lack clean water access(http://www.waterindustry.org/Water-Facts/world-water-6.htm 9th paragraph). Give me a second, i'm going to do the math really quick. This will be fun! The results come to the fact that 13.5%( based on your numbers and the cia factbook world population index) lack health care (whether thats health care coverage or the inablity to afford basic health care on there own I am unclear of). This is the minority of people. Compare this to the 16% of the population of the WORLD (including those in the first) that lacks access to potable water. I'm can't speak for you, but I'de rather have clean water than health care (not to mention the fact the potable water is essential for health care in 'developing nations') although both should be world standards. With this information, world poverty and U.S. poverty in no way compare with eachother. In in reality (the one that more than 40 million face) poverty in amerikkka pales in comparison to that experienced by the majority of the world.
So how oppressed and impovershed is the average amerikkkan compared to the average human?
Less focus on that line capitalist mode of production. The fact is that most amerikkkans do not produce anything but simply are paid to move a finished product along untill it sells. Look up the labor statistics. Amerikkka is a service sector economy. So, while you may think that your 5.15/hr is a shitty wage, especially for working in a mall, keep in mind that the only reason that you can make 5.15 as a member of the labor aristocracy and the capitalists can still make a profit is because of the contradictions that are apparent in the production of all the shit you're selling/transporting/giving the finishing touches before it is sold. That is, the only reason that you can make a decent wage and someone can still turrn a profit is because the during the actual production of the good, depressed wages were paid. This is the Principal contradiction. So if you can find a way to prove that Amerikkka workers are a majority of producers AND surplus value is extracted from them, then they are proletarian. If not, then they are the labor aristocracy, workers bought off by the profits from imperialism.
Joe comment.........
That being said, I am aware of the more theoretical implications of the problem. But again, you are wrong - capitalists are not in the business of paying higher wages just for the fun of it. If we divide the history of the 20th century into three epochs, we see that in the first - pre WWI, when Lenin wrote Imperialism, and in the second, the post-war/Cold War, the "bribing of the workers" through the profits of imperialism was in full force - I would not disagree with it. But the third epoch, the one we are still in today, has seen the ability of the capitalist class to maintain this scheme weaken severely. The development of the productive forces - technological innovations - during the second epoch necessitated a mass expulsion of workers from the productive process, and reduced thousands of skilled jobs to unskilled labor. This necessarily resulted in a decline in the rate of profit, which in turn necessitated an prolonged offensive on the part of the ruling class to claw back, bit by bit, all which it had granted in the earlier epoch. This offensive continues today and has reached a fevered pitch.
The basic statistics available to anyone who isn't brainwashed by Maoism are available - real wages for American workers have been declining for 30 years, with only a temporary increase during the technology boom of the late 90s. After the recession of 2000-present, the downward trajectory of real wages resumed its pace. I am sure the same process has been taking place in all advanced countries.
Die4oil recomments.....
"No, I don't foresee picking fruit for 4 dollars an hour anytime soon. What the hell is your point? 40 million Americans have no healthcare."
So what, nearly all of this people that lack health care (by which the state has created (yet, not free) public access to health care in most areas in amerikkka.) have access to clean water. On the other hand, 1.1 billion people throughout the world lack clean water access(http://www.waterindustry.org/Water-Facts/world-water-6.htm 9th paragraph). Give me a second, i'm going to do the math really quick. This will be fun! The results come to the fact that 13.5%( based on your numbers and the cia factbook world population index) lack health care (whether thats health care coverage or the inablity to afford basic health care on there own I am unclear of). This is the minority of people. Compare this to the 16% of the population of the WORLD (including those in the first) that lacks access to potable water. I'm can't speak for you, but I'de rather have clean water than health care (not to mention the fact the potable water is essential for health care in 'developing nations') although both should be world standards. With this information, world poverty and U.S. poverty in no way compare with eachother. In in reality (the one that more than 40 million face) poverty in amerikkka pales in comparison to that experienced by the majority of the world.
So how oppressed and impovershed is the average amerikkkan compared to the average human?
posted by Reqiyaqereh @ 2:14 AM
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